There were fresh demonstrations outside letting agents in London at the weekend, with protesters once again calling for an end to ‘rip-off’ tenancy fees.
In Brixton, demonstrators also protested against the alleged ‘gentrification’ symbolised by the new Foxtons branch. Protesters managed to enter the premises and unfurl a banner in its window saying ‘Yuppies Out’.
Private tenants’ group Digs was behind the latest protest, which targeted branches of Foxtons and Felicity J Lord and came just days after former Labour housing minister John Healey launched a Private Member’s Bill which proposes to stamp out letting agent fees.
Digs said letting agents had helped to push up private rents.
One tenant, Rosie Walker, said: “When I moved into a flat in Stamford Hill the agent asked for a £150 ‘security fee’ on top of the usual deposit and signing fee (about another £100). Letting agents need to recognise that renters are tired of being ripped off and treated badly.
“When I asked what ‘security fee’ meant, they explained that it was ‘highly recommended’ because ‘this landlord could get difficult when it comes to returning the deposit’.
“In the criminal world, this is called protection money.”
Heather Kennedy, from Digs, said England should follow the example of Scotland where fees charged to tenants are banned.
She said: “Letting agents need to recognise that renters are tired of being ripped off and treated badly.
“More and more tenants in Hackney and across London are now getting organised and standing together, demanding fair treatment from letting agents and landlords.
“The Government needs to recognise that in a city where demand for affordable housing far outstrips supply, regulation of letting agents is desperately needed to protect renters from the worst excesses of an overheated rental market.
“MPs must follow the example of Scotland by banning rip-off fees which are making the private rented sector inaccessible to people on low incomes who have nowhere else to go.”
A spokesperson for Felicity J Lord, which is understood to charge a £250 tenancy fee plus £50 per extra person, said: “Our fees are extremely competitive and provide exceptionally good value, given that we provide a dedicated specialist administrator in every branch, offering a first-class service to both our tenants and landlords. Many other agencies don’t offer this level of support.”
Foxtons, which is understood to charge £350 for a tenancy agreement plus a £125 check-out fee to London tenants, declined to comment. At earlier protests, it hired bouncers to keep demonstrators out of its Brixton branch.
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Comments
I have to say our letting agent freeholder is appalling— he owns 24 out of the 32 flats. He moved drink and drug patients into the building the minority leaseholders were attacked and abused. He offered us £2,500 for our flats.
He put his company into corporate closure for 12 years so got away without paying around £250,000 in council tax,
Just one scam after another we have had to go before the Cambridge leasehold valuation tribunal for 12 years.
Managing agents/Letting agents need regulation.
So we all seem to agree that £150 is a reasonable fee,
I presume none of you will moan about this being set as the maximum fee then and agree that anyone charging over this should be prosecuted by the OFT
Personally I charge nothing for a credit check, drawing up a tenancy agreement (which is typing the tenants details into pre-drafted template) getting the deposit to the TPO and writing an inventory, but I do not have the overheads to cover. Which is why I can have a slightly lower rents than a landlord using a agent and still make more money, happy days :0)
Ray my comments re the branded car etc were aimed at @Jeff EA person to highlight how ridiculous his view of tenants is (do read the whole thread before responding)
p.s dealing with "those type of people" is how you make your living don't moan about it or seek thanks
Respect Ray, I agree with Steve also, I use agents for most of my properties and cannot see what the issue is.
Tenants should pay something, for the service provided even during the tenancy, if they want it renewed with a fixed AST then they should pay for the paper work.
I never fail to be amused by this forum.
Private landlord comes on here ranting about how we all have branded mini coopers, dodgy suits, fake tans and holidays in marbs (whatever/whereever the hell marbs is) and then expects to have a meaningful conversation with us about fees.
Having apparently based your visionary views on agents by your experience with one bad one, what makes you think you are qualified to tell us what fees we should or should not charge to tenants?
As it happens I think £150 for a reference is more than enough, a little extra for a spouse - Private landlord 2 nails the reason for that one correctly - but its this crazy idea that we are all idly rich that hacks me off more than anything else.
I work damn hard, dealing with the sort of people that Steve from Leicester highlights so accurately in his post, for little or no thanks from a small number of landlords. I buy my suits from John Lewis or Marks & Spencer, I have one holiday a year in the sun if I'm lucky and I haven't earnt enough to have bought a portfolio of properties like Private Landlord appears to have done.
I sometimes wish I was that typical portrayal of an agent, at least i might be getting some enjoyment out of this work rather than be the butt of every would be property magnates anger because an agent once reduced his profit by a small percentage
Steve: Oh that's what you do to earn your fee from the Landlord, you see i didn't understand that :0) BTW I didnt say I havent had any problems, but when I was using an agent the way they usually dealt with the problem was to phone me up and pass it on! I am sure you are much more professional though.
Would you mind telling me what you charge for tenancy fee and what you do to earn it? or even more simply do you agree with private landlord 2 and I that £150 (for a couple or single applicant) is enough?
Private Landlord, now we get to the nub of it. You've been fortunate enough to never have a problem tenant and therefore think it couldn't happen to you.
We're a reputable agent who does everything properly, so only a tiny percentage of our tenancies have problems. However, as we do many hundreds of lets every year and manage many hundreds of tenancies the law of averages mean that over the ten years we've been in business we've seen the lot.
We've had tenants who can't pay and tenants who won't pay (but refuse to leave). We've had tenants who have sub-let.
We've had couples split up with one going and one staying (at which point we found out which of the two former partners was the sensible and responsible one).
We've had tenants threaten us and threaten the landlord because they're unhappy about something which is beyond both ours and the landlord's control.
We've had tenants and their neighbours at war with each other.
We've successfully defended landlords against spurious personal injury claims from tenants by producing our maintenance and management visit records.
We've had fires and floods.
We've had a chinmey stack collapse in the middle of the night and a water tank burst flooding every flat from the top floor to the ground.
We've had a dead body (the emergency services reckon the poor chap had been there about ten days when we found him).
We've had drugs busts and brothels.
I could go on.
We've seen it and dealt with it - and when we did those landlords really did discover what a professional letting and managing agent does to earn his money.
To be honest I have never had to evict a tenant or even have one miss a payment, I guess i pick mine wisely! However, if you are evicting the husband I expect the wife would quite like to go with him :0)
Fair point on the £150 pound but I notice the EA's have gone a bit quite on the subject now.
Private Landlord, the tenant defaults on the rent, and you have rent insurance and eviction cover will your eviction cover evict the tenant that had not been referenced or at least credit checked.
Also would you let a tenant in your property that could have bad debt registered against your property,
Regards to fees £150.00 per couple is not unreasonable, I did not say person and nor did you..
At Private Landlord 2
Am i wrong on all points or just the point about credit checks
Now look at the following sceanrio
A married man the primary tenant has impecccable credit history, and rent is easily affordable for him
The spouse is now a stay at home mum with chequered history, are you going to turn them away.
If you say yes you are lying, you know you are not, so whats the point in doing the credit check on the spouse other than to screw another £150 out of the couple
If the tenancy in joint names i agree 2 credit checks are required
I just checked 4 LA's in Stamford Hill.
Not one states the tenancy fees on it's website, but i am willing to bet all charge simliar to Foxton's and include security fee's
Agents you are ripping tenants off, you know it, they know it, the government knows it, Shelter knows it.
I see another stupid post from an agent comparing not wanting to pay for different qulaity to not wanting to pay for tenancy agreements. Do you really believe your credit check, check out service, and contract draft is worth more than your competitors. Shelter are right this should all be covered in your 10% a month fee for doing F-ALL.
Private landlord, how wrong you are, except the point about £150 that does not sound unreasonable, however every one that is on my tenancy agreements is credit checked spouse or not as long as they are over 18 they are responsible for the total rent,
@@jeff and Adam are you really that thick?
Of course tennants cannot choose an agent
So how about you agents stop spending money on branded mini coopers,crap fitting suits, tanning booths and holidays to Marbs, then you could reduce your fees
I have been a tenant and a landlord, the LA did diddly squat for me in both cases. I let a property out myself, i didnt charge a fee for the credit check as many agencies do them for free, I found a tenant in 3 days had 6 possible viewings, and didnt get charged 10% of my rental income and yes i am in the TPOS and the tennant has a contract.
Andy, why dont you put your letting contract up here in full or a link to your website : are your fees advertised on it so tennants can see what they will pay before wasting there time. Put up or shut up
The solution will be the government will simply set a maximum tenancy fee and £150 is reasonable.
Credit checks on spouses of tenants is not requred only those liable for the rent need to be credit checked.
@ confused
I don't think Digs are the sort of group that want dialogue with agents; having someone discuss fees rationally and calmly with them would defeat the object of their actions; which is to try and gain support for Shelter's sustained attack on letting agents and fees.
loving the comments looks like common sense will prevail we hope and leave the agents alone to get on with business,
A while ago, in the wake of the Woolwich murder, an EDL group marched on a mosque in York.
Far from barricading themselves in, the elders invited the EDL in for a cuppa, a chat and even a game of football. All was resolved peacefully, and understanding prevailed.
If I was picketed, I'd invite the cheeky scamps in, give them a cuppa, and tell them exactly why I charged the fees I do- and I'm sure understanding would also prevail. I've just had new glass displays put in so the football would be off the cards- but I think there's still a connect 4 in reception to placate kids that we could break out.
We don't need to be cheaper as an industry, or more regulated. Just more transparent, which would solve everything.
In sainsburys I want the taste the difference range rather than the basic range on offer. The problem is, its too damn expensive
But i want it sooo IIIII should be able to have it
Someone please direct me to who i can make a complaint to so i get what i want - its just wrong that's its so expensive and im really not happy about it
Thanks
Next tenants will be saying deposits should not be charged, who on earth thinks they should get a service for free Um I wonder, people who cannot seem to get a reference or credit check past the agents, after all that is what the fees are paid for, why would an agent work for free to do this applicants do have a choice, I'm a tenant and was happy to pay the fee's, because I made sure the agent had CMP and was a member of ARLA and TPO, by the way I have been renting for years, I can only see trouble type tenants/applicants wanting to pay nothing for something
I will say it again;
OK Rosie Walker; name the agent.......... Put up or shut up!
Jeff & Ray you are spot on.
@ jeff
in most areas tenants have a huge range of property to choose from, available from an equally large range of agents or landlords.
Like the rest of us, tenants have to decide what they want; if they see a house they like but don't want to pay the agent a fee, then they will look to see if its available through another agent or find a different property.
Tenants aren't the weak minded, easily led simpletons you seem to be implying they might be, they are (mostly) just normal people like you and me who can make a sentient decision to save money or not.
I will take one office as an example - there are 54 agents covering it. Thats a huge choice for tenants in a free market. Many agents offer 'free deals' for tenants - most who do aren't members of any professional scheme and are enticing tenants into a potential risk situation as there is no CMP
We are mid priced - have NEVER had a complaint and are market leaders.
Where on earth is the issue?
Get rid of Government fees - 20% VAT isn't exactly helping
Then there is tax on profits - a myriad of compliance fees, professional costs, insurances, training etc.
Agents do a great deal for tenants and don't charge them - a contribution towards the costs of providing a sound tenancy is not unreasonable. Would a free service be deemed impartial in the event of dispute if the Landlord was paying all the agents fees?
This is playing in to the hands of cowboys and rogue Landlords.
What about Mortgage Arrangement fees from lenders? Bank charges? Service charge on wine - a £7 bottle in Tesco was charged at £30 in a restuarant - then 12.5% was added as setrvice charge for pulling out a bloody cork - actually - it was a screw top,
Not many agents are making huge profits - 20% is pretty decent.
We charge £150, which covers everything. We haven't had anybody complain about the expense.
Jeff:
@Jeffs' view is not a bigoted one. He's right - if tenants don't like the fees, they can go elsewhere. Tenants are not forced into staying in a tenancy if they disagree with it.
@Jeff:
I understand where you're coming from. We have a tenant in arrears who just "popped" into the office last week to tell us she was going on holiday to Spain for a week! Surely that money should be going elsewhere? Hmm...
Thank you @Jeff. Choice of property and choice of agent are entirely different things. Your bigoted views of tenants clearly indicates why regulation (and probably legislation) is on its way....
OK Rosie Walker; name the agent..........
Put up or shut up!
Tenants DO have a choice of agent - they can choose another property. Perhaps instead of spending money on i-pads/phoes, sky tv and televisions the size of a small cinema screen, they could use the money to pay any fees?
Are these comments not missing a critical point? Tenants do not have choice of agent - that choice is made by the landlord!
Please let us not have the usual, "My fees are lower than yours" type of posts. We agents are better than that. The parroted claims by people from DIGS should be treated with a bucket of salt. They are hearsay and would be inadmissbale in a court without hearing from the other side.
We all have to pay fees throughout our lives from ortgage fees to solicitors fees. They can use other agents and there is no reason why they cannot ASSK about fees before entering a tenancy rather than complain AFTER.
OK here's my experience.
Where I operate the less scrupulous agents charge massive tenant fees (£350.00 and the like) BUT they use this to incentivise landlord charges hence they appear cheaper than we do. As a result of that they would appear more attractive to landlords and gain more instructions er go the tenants have nowhere to go right? It dooesn't actually work that way at the moment as our reputation means we don't lose out to these clowns but theoretically it could hence some leveller on tenant fees is absolutely necessary. Scrapping them is not the way forward as it encourages time-wasters which no-one wants (see Estate Agents No Sale - No Charge and the subsequent 30% fall through rate plus much higher fees for serious sellers!). That approach won't work but some regulation on transparency and level of tenant charges is reasonable. Shelter need to back off now and let the Government and our bodies sort out the best way forward. Banning fees altogether will not work. We are businesses after all and should not have to work for nothing.
We charge £100+VAT but that includes,
check-in & out,
referencing
tenancy agreement
reference letters at the end of the tenancy.
That's enough for us to cover our costs and generally we get no negative feedback from tenants. The horror stories from them of other agents who charge £25+vat for a reference letter and £350 for admin fees is ridiculous!
I would rather see them banned
Here's what could happen:
Get rid of tenant fees.
Agents charge the landlord more.
Landlord puts up their rent demand to cover cost.
Tenants are now paying more than if they had just paid the fees.
Nothing in life is ever free and these are business we're talking about.
I concur that rip of charges are bad and need to be stamped out but that is done by having clarity within the industry so that tenants can compare agencies and go with the one that provides the best value for money.
But remember. Cheap usually does not always translate to being good!