This week’s SAFEAgent awareness week has received enormous support.
Citizens Advice included SAFEagent information in its new ‘Paying the Rent’ toolkit, an internal resource for its advisers. It means that CAB advisers are encouraged to recommend SAFEagent to members of the public.
Citizens Advice housing policy officer Geoff Fimister said: “Citizens Advice has long called for regulation of letting agents, but this is not on the horizon at present. As an important step in the right direction, though, we support the SAFEagent scheme.”
The British Property Federation was also among those sending out press releases aimed at consumers, warning them that most landlords who use a letting agent are probably unaware whether any money they handle is protected by a Client Money Protection scheme.
Ian Fletcher, director of policy at the British Property Federation, said: “A simple message is often the most effective, and in this case it couldn’t be simpler: if you don’t use a SAFEagent your money could be at risk.
“Landlords often use an agent to take away the stress and hassle of managing their property, or because they are trying to do it from afar. Anyone can set up a letting agency, however, and it doesn’t take long for them to be handling significant sums of rent, deposits and other payments.
“The cheapest agent might appear attractive, but landlords should examine whether that is because their agent is cutting corners and not offering the protections that a SAFEagent will offer.”
The week’s campaign had its official launch at the House of Commons, hosted by MP Charles Walker and attended by the likes of Lord Best, ARLA president Tim Hyatt, Belvoir chief executive Dorian Gonsalves, TDS chief executive Steve Harriott, and many others.
You can see the event here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpDfeUxqYgU&feature=youtu.be
%20-%20IMAGE%20Client%20Accounting%20%E2%80%93%20what%20are%20your%20options.jpg)
Comments
ARLA President & TDS boss were 2 biggest surprises I suppose.
who you weren't expecting to see there Eagle Eyes?
Anyone in particular?
I am not knocking SAFE at all and applaud what it has set out to achieve and has achieved in a very short time, but rather than jump on a sycophantic bandwagon of congratulation I would like to point out that at the end of the awareness week the awareness has not reached much further than those who were already aware.
The thing about having a finger on the pulse is knowing where to find it. You have now provided a useful list of the Steering group members and say they are approachable, How are they approachable? Each will have a busy work schedule on top of which I am sure they are putting considerable effort into SAFE so unless one already knows one of the group it is difficult to know how to approach them.
I really doubt that providing a channel of communication to the steering group would be classed as self promotion and it would stand SAFE head and shoulders above NAEA, ARLA and RICS in that regard.
Actually - if you watch the video you can spot a few people I wasn't expecting to see there. Tim Hyatt looks like he was hiding!
@ Don't ask where I have been
You raise an interesting point and one I fear the SAFE steering group can't win.
I have interviewed a number of them and most have spoken at some event / seminar or conference. The point was not about self promotion. SAFE wanted to be seen as not political and not partisan. The members are members of RICS, ARLA, NALS, NAEA.
John Midgely - Touchstone
Neil Young - Young London
Nick Cooper - Northwood UK
Sarah Tonkinson - Foxtons
Paul Sloan - Spicer Haart
Chris Day - Sequence
Eric Walker - Bushells
Hugh Dunsmore Hardy - Winkworth
Unlike other 'Boards' the steering Group is very open and approachable. Moreso, they are accessable and happy to answer questions. A refreshing change.
At least they are trying to do something beneficial and you can't knock the support they have generated.
If your agent hasn't heard of SAFE, then respectfully, I would get one with his finger on the pulse of a rapidly changing industry.
Is SAFE necessary? Yes - until the regulators join in a single voice whilst protecting their own market share and Government regulates - its a good idea and very worthwhile.
The thing about PR is that everyone knows what is going on, look at the SAFE site, the obvious place to look and there is no mention that John Midgely is the Chair or who else is involved or part of the steering group.
Dave has kindly supplied
"Directors of - northwood - winkworth - Bushells - Foxtons - young london - spicer heart - BelvoirLettings - touchstone." but that doesn't really say who.
On record? let me think, Dorian and Eric.
Then there is the NALS involvement, remember a few weeks back when it was revealed that NAL:S were the administrators, it wasn't a secret but is wasn't something that got communicated.
"To ask where have you been?" really ought to be "why isn't this stuff obvious and accessable?"
Moving on to the awareness week, I am a landlord, my agent isn't a SAFE agent, how do they or I know about the awareness week? where is it? what is it? It has had it's official launch but now what?
Directors of - northwood - winkworth - Bushells - Foxtons - young london - spicer heart - BelvoirLettings - touchstone.
The steering group is well known - they are on record - on the video and comment frequently.
The chair is John Midgely - touchstone
Just as the Board members at the various factions of NFOPP have been a bit well, not widely known. I have been looking to see who the members of the Safe Steering Group are.
Who are they?
@perhaps - move on mate. 90% of safe group had no involvement.
Nals provide admin not policy. Tim Hyatt supported the safe reception. It's just the dinosaurs who are hold back ARLA in the credibility stakes.
If the monarchy can modernise, you and you cronies should try it.
If the internet wasn't so young at the time, the whole saga and politics of ARLA V NALs, the upset caused and the comments made at the time would be more widely appreciated. In my opinion a lot of the current dis-harmony across the profession was a seed planted back then. Certainly that episode diluted ARLA's efforts to becoming the single and credible regulator of Lettings and Management.
Presumably those who are so quick to support Hugh have also waded in to support the likes of Shipside and Ockenden who have had to endure far worse on this forum.
The trouble with being rude to people who are offering their help when they think you need it is that their support is not so forthcoming when you think you need it.
"I care about the rip off merchants who taint our business"
Exactly who are they and how do you spot them? Hindsight seems to be the only way of detecting them and it seems the industry as a whole is content with that.
Auditors, HMRC and OFT are failing to spot the rogues so although well intentioned, there is every chance a SAFE sticker issued in good faith will be used to convince more hapless landlords that their property and funds are safe and as IO observes that will very quickly bring SAFE into disrepute and more so than ARLA who are not making quite such bold claims
I am utterly disgusted that a sensible thread full of positive comment and praise for a great initiative has been tainted by a disgraceful comment and personal jibe against one of the steering group.
All the SAFE members have worked and the fact Hughs involvement has just been noticed by the pratt below underlines that they aren't doing it for self publicity.
I have been in NAEA / ARLA for 23years and have nothing but respect for HDH.
Whoever made the Glitter 'joke' should hang their head in shame. You are despicable.
PBK's new replacement announced Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf
"Like you would let....... "
Nice. Child abuse parallels are always useful comic material.
Idiot.
Hope EAT / LAT bans you.
Gary Glitter baby sit your kids, ARLA will forget the past!
To hear the words "we are not trying to compete" coming out of Hugh's mouth was suddenly like listening to Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf
Well Well Well
Are you going to expand or just make a petty snipe?
Note - who else could have done the admin when ARLA/NAEA and RICS just moan about each other.
And what are you doing to help consumers?
As a senior ARLA member, I dont give a fig about old issue - I care about the rip off merchants who taint our business
@Wellwellwell
For heavens sake - its about consumers - not people, politics and historic tiffs. Who cares? Just you and, so you claim, ARLA.
We are friends with the Germans and the Japanese - if we can move on from that surely we can focus on the future and not the past.
Hugh Dunsmore Hardy! well I never did. That explains the loyalty to the Nals admin team!
No wonder ARLA have been so reluctant to support SAFE!
Just listened to the Lord Best interview - brilliant explaination
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp2NPXwQ1GQ&feature=relmfu
Jimmy's client money NOT at risk - he has invested it in an new extension..... ;)
Norfolk Safe agent
The fastest growing community of social media users are the over 55's.
You dont need to be on Twitter to see the benefits - current content drives Googles search results...
Those who don't see my point are clearly biased. Using the would COULD does not let him off the hook. The implication remains, and is unnaceptable. My clients money is not "could be at risk". It is not at risk at all.
I'll just say " All Letting agents could be crooks. Yes they could. It's a fact! Beware."
Watch out guys.
@IO
Agree with you. Of course the real acid test will come when there are claims on CMP and whether or not the insurer coughs up or not. Somewhat incongruously, NALS as SAFE's administrator has a track record of wriggling as in a few high profile cases a few years ago.
@PRPaul.
Agree with you too. Now all we need to do is get landlords to use social media too. My guess is at least 80% of all landlords are over 40 and less than 5% of those use twitter.
Jimmy objects to car insurance as he is a really good driver.
Look - all SAFE is trying to do is highlight a really important issue and act as a signpost to regulators whose members have CMP.
@Jimmy - IF you do not have Clients Money Protection you pose a higher risk than an agent who does.
Its not suggesting you are dishonest - if you think that you fail to understand the issue.
If you have CMP - you have a ring-fenced client account. This means, if business is bad and you cant pay bills, the bank can nick the money to offset and liabilities.
Many agents have gone under through trading issues NOT dishonesty.
SAFE is a kitemark to raise consumer awareness of this important issue.
**STOP PRESS**
@Jimmy to sue all those who say your money is more at risk if you use and uninsured agent:
Forthcoming cases:
Grant Shapps, Chris Hamer, Lord Best, NALS, RICS, ARLA, Law Society, OFT, TSI, BPF, CML, RLA, Mayor of London, Peter Bolton King, Ian Potter, Tim Hyatt, Charles Walker, TDS, My Deposits, Homelet, 2000 estate agents and Connie Huq.
Expensive - lets hope you don't get tempted to dip into the clients account to fund these actions!!
Jimmy
It wasn't personal - it's not slander.
Safe, in their own words say: There are several schemes* in the sector operated by ARLA/NFOPP, the Law Society, NALS and RICS to which agents voluntarily belong. The scope of these schemes varies and you should contact your agent for full details of the scheme of which they are a part.
ARLA say "Use an ARLA agent as they have CMP"
Will everyone now sue ARLA for implying that everyone else is more likely to nick money??
Have a lie down mate
@Jimmy "Actually I take offense to your personal slander. I am not a thief, and if you continue to imply that I could be, I will see you in court. "
WTF????
He said 'Could be at risk' - not Jimmy is a thief. If that statement wasn't true, why do all the regulators insist on members having CMP?
If you dont have CMP, you cant join TDS - why do you think that is? Are they calling you a crook too?
Jimmy - dont over react.
He said "if you don’t use a SAFEagent your money COULD be at risk." the key message is using an agent with CMP.
ARLA, Government, RICS, TPOS, CAB, OFT and many other say the same thing.
No one is suggesting you are dishonest - they are suggesting that agents should have CMP and if not, there is a risk.
The best advertisement for SAFE is this interview with the Chair of TPOS.
Really interesting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp2NPXwQ1GQ&feature=relmfu
It is wrong to claim that if you use a SAFEagent your money is not at risk.
Hang on Mr Fletcher.
"if you don’t use a SAFEagent your money could be at risk"
I'm not a SAFEAgent. Are you telling the public that their money is not safe with me. Are you implying that I am more likely to steal their money than you are?
Actually I take offense to your personal slander. I am not a thief, and if you continue to imply that I could be, I will see you in court.
How about this comment "Don't use SAFEAgents, because the director of the British Property Federation is a libelous twit" And what the fig is the BPF any way?
I feel really proud to be a SAFEagent - its a great idea and the coverage has been superb. It has been different from other organisations as its a real team effort and the steering group very approachable and you dont have the feeling of layers of committees and ivory towers with lost of floors.
Why is it a surprise that Tim attended? It would be a surpirse if he wasn't invited after his blog recently.
Fair play to SAFE for inviting him and to Tim for going.
@PRPaul
You make some very good points. SAFE clearly understand the cyber PR world .
They have done well and as you say - get free PR by courting others.
ARLA seem to be so insular, they just dont get outside support. The success of media like Twitter is by being nice, interesting and re-tweeting
SAFE has been very clever. They have got others to do the PR - steering group, Safe members, independent consumer groups, TPOS, NALS
It negates the response "Well, they would say that wouldn't they"
They have also used social media extremely well - Google loves current comment and links. They have also generated comment and links on property blogs, You Tube and online press.
ARLA could learn a great deal and could generate HUGE benefit in their own PR by offering support.
SAFE's PR is very slick and light years away from simple 'press releases'.
As an ARLA member - I take my hat off to SAFE for all they have achieved.
In 8 months they have gained amazing support. In the same timescale, ARLA have only managed to finally comment on SAFE!!
Have you seen our new leaflets? (You wouldn't use an unlicensed taxi / travel agent / Dentist / Doctor - please Lord) - crass, cheap and embarrassing.
"Ian Fletcher, director of policy at the British Property Federation, said: “A simple message is often the most effective, and in this case it couldn’t be simpler: if you don’t use a SAFEagent your money could be at risk."
Just one word of caution and don't shoot the messenger I'm all for SAFEagent and always have been.
But I have also always pointed out, as I think has Ray Evans (apologies ray if it is not your goodself) that the one thing SAFE must ALWAYS be certain of is that all of its members have cmp all of the time, 24/7.
There has been much debate about this over the past year but the big problem for SAFE is that its members having cmp in case something does go wrong is their raison d'etre. or put another way if a SAFE member goes down and the cmp is not in place then the entire thing collapses.
Hopefully this is not going to happen but from the recent comments by John Midgeley on how SAFE was checking its members had cmp I'm afraid it is possible that a client's money is at risk even if they have used a SAFE agent because they can only check that cmp is in place on initial joining and annually or by random checks - which is what JM said.
I don't knocjk this, I have said all along there was no way SAFE could possibly know that all of its members definitely had cmp all of the time, just as ARLA cannot know that one of its members is not going to run off with all the client money.
It simply has to be lived with and SAFE can only do the best it can, which it clearly is doing. But for anyone to say "use a SAFEagent and your money will always be safe, bound to be" is dangerous. Because it just may not be.
Safe agent has really given the establishment a bloody nose.
Tim Hyatt attending the reception only serves to show that whatever ARLA say - they take SAFE seriously. They could have sent anyone as a representative - but to send their president says a great deal.
@Ray Evans - spot on. Perhaps someone should tell ARLA that!
Well done to Tim Hyatt for rising above the petty politics and attending the reception.
I say this to ARLA & RICS:
The supporters in the video cant all be wrong.
Wake up and join them - you will end up looking very petty - its about consumers - not your market share
SAFE have been very good at PR etc and I have supported it from the beginning, but they should not be thought to have the same purpose in life as RICS or NFOPP and their Divisions which are "trade unions". SAFEagent is mainly a PR and advertising group to enhance consumer awareness to use agents with proper money protection schemes.
I was against SAFE when it first started - I have shifted opinion as they have been committed, consistent and got noticed.
They didn't seem bothered by ARLA's lack of endorsement which I am now beginning understand. They didn't want to be seen as another boys club - rather a stand alone group who sought consumer support rather than industry.
They have done very well.
Anyone who goes to any of the conferences will see the well known senior London agents having a laugh together and taking the mickey out of each other. They have all been around for ages and many have worked together. Its clear they all get on.
They may not agree on everything - but its no surprise that Tim was invited to such a high profile event. Frankly, it would have been rude to not invite him.
I agree with the praise for what SAFE has achieved - very impressive
They certainly do know how to get noticed. I bet ARLA wished they had such a slick PR operator. Of course they used to have a much higher public profile and extensively promoted their market leading CMP. I wonder who was their PR agent then .....?
So what if Tim Hyatt was at the reception? So he should be - ARLA cannot alienate themselves from such a high profile event where supporters were not so much from Industry - but from consumers groups and Government.
I would have been very disappointed had ARLA not be represented - had they not - ARLA members would no doubt be outraged for being snubbed.
Well done to SAFE - it has to be said that you guys know how to get noticed.
MP Charles Walker.... is he any relation to one of the steering group??
Bloody hell - watch the video.
You cant help but be impressed with the comments and support from people who cant be ignored.
ARLA's latest news on their website is:
ARLA Mortgages News - 10/05/2012 - ARLA Mortgages, the online buy-to-let specialist, produces the Property Investor Profile to track developments in the UK buy-to-let mortgage market.
Mmm. Consumer champions? Regulators? Or a sales business.
ARLA has NEVER not supported SAFE - that's a myth.
ARLA simply said it was up to members to make their own choice.
Frankly - they would do better to piggyback the PR as they aren't good at such things and have been battered by SAFE in this respect.
Fair play to Tim for going - its about time ARLA were seen as less insular and arrogant.
I am confused. When SAFE launched, ARLA ignored them. Some ARLA members were hostile - others dismissive.
Now the ARLA president appears at the SAFE agent reception????
That can only be seen as supportive - does the rest of the ARLA hierarchy feel the same?
Can anyone explain why the President of ARLA who have consistently failed to support the SAFEagent concept and who were recently reported as stating that NALS (the SAFEagent administrators) were considered as being their 'competitors, were doing at such an event? People will do anything for a freebee I suppose.
What ever people respective views on SAFE may be, you have to admire their PR.
This is the effect of successful, experienced agents doing something instead of stuffy committees.
Well done SAFE